![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
redwoodalchan You know, I've tried to get into feminist discourse about anime (and to a lesser extent video games) for awhile now, but it often seems like every time I try, I'm disappointed with the way it goes. So, lemme see if I can lay it on the line just what it is about a lot of these discussions that bugs me so much.
One thing I've noticed about the random schmucks who decide to try their hand at feminist analysis of anime, is that all the same shows and characters keep coming up again and again. I see fan after fan tell me "Integra is awesome!" or "Riza Hawkeye/Winry Rockbell/Izumi/Olivia Armstrong is awesome!" Occasionally they may throw in a mention of Haruhi from "Ouran High School Host Club," or Kino if they've heard of "Kino's Journey," but it seems like there are select characters and anime that everyone "knows" are feminist, and new ground is basically not worth exploring. You also, of course, get shows like "Death Note" or "Love Hina" which "everyone knows" are sexist in this way or that, but what you end up with from this tactic is a bunch of shows that are "on the fence," as it were, and whose gender politics no one can agree on or no one's bothered to analyze in any depth. Stories like "Code Geass," "Gurren Lagann," or the Pokemon games I've seen feminist critics try to analyze by boiling them all down to one or a few characters as though they represent the whole. I've seen people say "Code Geass is feminist because the females are badass," and also "Code Geass is sexist because the females are used for fanservice." By the same token, I've seen arguments that Pokemon is feminist because you can play as a male or a female, and I've seen arguments that Pokemon is sexist because the females wear short skirts and there hasn't been a woman to occupy every position yet. It is all extremely frustrating.
What's more, it seems like there are feminist critics who only discuss individual characters or aspects of a show and ignore the overarching context or any trends that might contribute to it. I've seen someone try to argue that "Ouran High School Host Club" fails to be a feminist work because the boys Haruhi interacts with are more interesting than she is, when she's SUPPOSED to have a less pronounced personality so the female audience can project themselves onto Haruhi and imagine being surrounded by gorgeous boys themselves. Or, to bring up "Kino's Journey" again, I've seen people praise Kino for getting to do what guys do in every single travel/adventure show (as well they might), but what nobody seems to notice is that the really feminist thing about "Kino's Journey" is that THERE IS NO RIGID GENDER DIVIDE anywhere in the show--the "Kino's Journey" women can basically do or be anything their means will allow (including engineering and other professions and hobbies traditionally considered masculine), and the same goes for the men.
And that's not even getting into critics who seem to think that only a certain subset of female characters can even be considered feminist. I've already ranted about the people who think a woman can't be too sexy and still be empowered, or who think a woman can't be too masculine without being a "man with boobs," but I also, for example, had a friend once try to argue that "Baccano!" was sexist because Chane fell in love with the Rail Tracer, and that this was apparently supposed to be taken as evidence that a woman is only supposed to be happy with a man in her life (never mind that Chane was probably about as insane as the Rail Tracer to begin with). Similarly, I've heard the argument that Usagi from "Sailor Moon" failed to be feminist because she had a love interest." All in all, it seems like the only types of characters consistently accepted as feminist are the Integras (stoic and badass but ladylike at the same time) or the Nausicaas (strong but gentle and nurturing) of the world, and even they may not count if there are too many problems with the other female characters in a work.
With all that being said, I think one of my biggest problems with the way feminist discourse of anime or video games or...any media, really, is handled, is that most of the people I've seen discussing it seem to view feminism or sexism in shows as an all or nothing deal. The predominant mentality seems to be that a show does X, Y, and Z and therefore must be feminist or, more frequently, it seems, couldn't possibly be feminist no matter what. It doesn't seem to occur to them that context matters, or that a work could be progressive in some ways and not in others (such as "Code Geass" giving us women who are capable of going toe-to-toe with men in a fight, and also wear ludicrously skimpy outfits in their off days).
One thing I've noticed about the random schmucks who decide to try their hand at feminist analysis of anime, is that all the same shows and characters keep coming up again and again. I see fan after fan tell me "Integra is awesome!" or "Riza Hawkeye/Winry Rockbell/Izumi/Olivia Armstrong is awesome!" Occasionally they may throw in a mention of Haruhi from "Ouran High School Host Club," or Kino if they've heard of "Kino's Journey," but it seems like there are select characters and anime that everyone "knows" are feminist, and new ground is basically not worth exploring. You also, of course, get shows like "Death Note" or "Love Hina" which "everyone knows" are sexist in this way or that, but what you end up with from this tactic is a bunch of shows that are "on the fence," as it were, and whose gender politics no one can agree on or no one's bothered to analyze in any depth. Stories like "Code Geass," "Gurren Lagann," or the Pokemon games I've seen feminist critics try to analyze by boiling them all down to one or a few characters as though they represent the whole. I've seen people say "Code Geass is feminist because the females are badass," and also "Code Geass is sexist because the females are used for fanservice." By the same token, I've seen arguments that Pokemon is feminist because you can play as a male or a female, and I've seen arguments that Pokemon is sexist because the females wear short skirts and there hasn't been a woman to occupy every position yet. It is all extremely frustrating.
What's more, it seems like there are feminist critics who only discuss individual characters or aspects of a show and ignore the overarching context or any trends that might contribute to it. I've seen someone try to argue that "Ouran High School Host Club" fails to be a feminist work because the boys Haruhi interacts with are more interesting than she is, when she's SUPPOSED to have a less pronounced personality so the female audience can project themselves onto Haruhi and imagine being surrounded by gorgeous boys themselves. Or, to bring up "Kino's Journey" again, I've seen people praise Kino for getting to do what guys do in every single travel/adventure show (as well they might), but what nobody seems to notice is that the really feminist thing about "Kino's Journey" is that THERE IS NO RIGID GENDER DIVIDE anywhere in the show--the "Kino's Journey" women can basically do or be anything their means will allow (including engineering and other professions and hobbies traditionally considered masculine), and the same goes for the men.
And that's not even getting into critics who seem to think that only a certain subset of female characters can even be considered feminist. I've already ranted about the people who think a woman can't be too sexy and still be empowered, or who think a woman can't be too masculine without being a "man with boobs," but I also, for example, had a friend once try to argue that "Baccano!" was sexist because Chane fell in love with the Rail Tracer, and that this was apparently supposed to be taken as evidence that a woman is only supposed to be happy with a man in her life (never mind that Chane was probably about as insane as the Rail Tracer to begin with). Similarly, I've heard the argument that Usagi from "Sailor Moon" failed to be feminist because she had a love interest." All in all, it seems like the only types of characters consistently accepted as feminist are the Integras (stoic and badass but ladylike at the same time) or the Nausicaas (strong but gentle and nurturing) of the world, and even they may not count if there are too many problems with the other female characters in a work.
With all that being said, I think one of my biggest problems with the way feminist discourse of anime or video games or...any media, really, is handled, is that most of the people I've seen discussing it seem to view feminism or sexism in shows as an all or nothing deal. The predominant mentality seems to be that a show does X, Y, and Z and therefore must be feminist or, more frequently, it seems, couldn't possibly be feminist no matter what. It doesn't seem to occur to them that context matters, or that a work could be progressive in some ways and not in others (such as "Code Geass" giving us women who are capable of going toe-to-toe with men in a fight, and also wear ludicrously skimpy outfits in their off days).
no subject
Date: 2013-07-19 02:59 am (UTC)With all that being said, I think one of my biggest problems with the way feminist discourse of anime or video games or...any media, really, is handled, is that most of the people I've seen discussing it seem to view feminism or sexism in shows as an all or nothing deal. The predominant mentality seems to be that a show does X, Y, and Z and therefore must be feminist or, more frequently, it seems, couldn't possibly be feminist no matter what. It doesn't seem to occur to them that context matters, or that a work could be progressive in some ways and not in others (such as "Code Geass" giving us women who are capable of going toe-to-toe with men in a fight, and also wear ludicrously skimpy outfits in their off days)."
I think it's a byproduct of the 'HERESY!' attitude of the Social Justice culture. They can say 'It's all right to like problematic stuff' all they like, but they emotionally can't bear to be seen liking Heretical things (and often this fear of social rejection is borne out by the more rabid members of the community).
Hence, they perform Two-Minutes Hates on anything with Heretical content, and they fight desperately to make sure things they actually deeply like are seen as in-no-way-Heretical. Goes for homophobic/racist/etc. content as much as feminist content.
Sad, really, but the Social Justice culture's rotten...
no subject
Date: 2013-07-19 04:23 pm (UTC)Similarly, I've heard the argument that Usagi from "Sailor Moon" failed to be feminist because she had a love interest."
Oh God, I HATE that argument. "She was so feminist until she got a boyfriend/fell in love/got married/had a baby/said hello to a man without shooting his dick off!".