redwoodalchan | I think the people who do the Breaking Dawn sporkings at Das

I finally got around to reading their last two entries...and they've sunk to the level of outright telling you how to interpret the characters! Seriously, they openly admitted that they are actively trying to make you hate Alice and Renesmee!

Like, okay, fine, if you don't like Alice or Renesmee, that's your prerogative. It's not like it's news to me that they're terrible characters. But don't insult your readers by telling them that they have to hate them too, or worse, hate them for the EXACT SAME REASONS YOU DO! Because when it comes to discussions of media or...anything really, there are few things I hate more than feeling like someone's telling me what to think.

And yes, I get that internet commentary kind-of is telling you what to think most of the time, but not in so many words--much of it at least tries to back up the points it makes with solid examples and ultimately lets you make the call as to whether you agree with it or not. At any rate, there's a pretty pronounced difference between "This thing here sucks and here's why" and "You should feel the exact same way about this that I do because I am Always Right." It's an attitude that I don't take from Suethors and hack writers, and I don't take it from the people who snark at Suethors and hack writers either.

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"Are losing it"? Current tense? :\

Yeah, I tend to... not read the entries at Das Sporking most of the time. I seriously preferred Zelda Queen's mockery, no matter how ~in-depth~ this Breaking Dawn spork is. At least when she complained about a point, she usually complained for a sentence or two rather than devoting a page and a GIF to every. Single. Gripe. She had with the thing.

"At any rate, there's a pretty pronounced difference between "This thing here sucks and here's why" and "You should feel the exact same way about this that I do because I am Always Right." It's an attitude that I don't take from Suethors and hack writers, and I don't take it from the people who snark at Suethors and hack writers either."
*MASSIVE APPLAUSE*

I'd say the same at Das Sporking, except... well, all the comments seem to agree with the BD Sporking, and I have no interest in getting dogpiled by a few dozen people yelling that I surely must be a sociopath to not utterly hate these characters or whatever. :\ Echo chambers are excruciating.

EDIT: *sigh* Also, I just read one of the posts I skipped, and -

"There’s no one left but the Volturi for us to root for at this point."
...You are SERIOUSLY saying that in the middle of a YOU MURDERING BASTARDS count?
Seriously?
Irony, much?

Edited 2013-07-02 07:15 (UTC)

I haven't read a whole lot of Zelda Queen's sporking, but I'm following her "How I Became Yours" review, and I like how she gets straight to the point rather than raging on a single thing for pages and pages.

I'd say the same at Das Sporking, except... well, all the comments seem to agree with the BD Sporking, and I have no interest in getting dogpiled by a few dozen people yelling that I surely must be a sociopath to not utterly hate these characters or whatever. :\ Echo chambers are excruciating.

Don't worry. We'll be sociopaths together. :P

Here's Zelda Queen's sporking. Notice that, amongst other things, the chapters only take one post each to spork (except for Waiting For The Damn Fight To Start Already, which was in two parts because Zelda Queen was taking a break after ranting about imprinting). :\

"Don't worry. We'll be sociopaths together. :P"
Das Sporking Damn Sociopaths, unite! :D

Seriously. As soon as I got to the "If you don't hate Alice, then I hate you too" part, I boggled for a few seconds, then threw my hands up and said, "Welp! I'm done!" It's gone from intelligent discussion of how problematic the books are to, well... your basic obnoxious Twihater spewage.

I just hope someone calls out Mervin on this ("Dude, you're being as immature as the characters you hate."), but it's unlikely anyone would do it without being dogpiled and demonized. :/

Edited 2013-07-02 20:54 (UTC)

It also peeves me that Mervin is hitting Renesmee so hard on the adult-mentality point when she's always disregarded Author's Notes on Suefics in favor of what's on the page. I remember that we did that a lot with Gethsemane Butler's Sweeney Todd Mary-Sue in particular. And NOW Meyer's word is suddenly sacred? Oh, COME OFF IT. I may not be remembering fully, as I've been skipping over a fat lot of the posts, but it seems she's just cherry-picking Meyer!canon and on-page!canon in order to produce the most negative interpretations possible.

Sorry, just venting. It's good to know there are two other people who feel the same way...

"I just hope someone calls out Mervin on this ("Dude, you're being as immature as the characters you hate."), but it's unlikely anyone would do it without being dogpiled and demonized. :/"
Yeah - somebody got into a debate with ~three different people just for saying that she didn't think children were innately selfish little shits and that their upbringing had a lot to do with it. I don't think calling out Mervin on her attitude is going to go well. At all.

I actually think her behavior toward Meyer's canon is a bit more consistent than that. From what I've seen of her old posts at HMS_STFU and whatever, she basically treats canon, regardless of context, as sacrosanct...if it's from an original work (I know she tried to take a shot at Deathtocapslock once by calling herself a "proud canon whore"). The way she sees it, Meyer is god of her storytelling, so if she says a character is a certain way, whether it's in the books or in the guide or whatever, then it must be true no matter how much she personally hates it (this isn't something she adheres to absolutely if there's a lot of inconsistency in a character or plot point, but broadly it seems to be the case). But this doesn't apply to Suefic or whatever else because that kind of work isn't original, it's just borrowing from an established canon, and therefore has to line up with what the author says is canon.

Yes, but... at the same time, she doesn't exactly agree with Meyer's statements if Meyer starts gushing about how wonderful Bella & Edward & Co. are. (I might be mixing up memories of other people who speculated that Edward didn't execute only true monsters with Mervin's commentary.) Which is what you're saying but...

It probably irks me only because, as Breaking Dawn is written, there's no evidence that Renesmee has the "adult mentality" that she keeps hammering the book on - so I'd think that would fall under the "lot of inconsistency" point. Yes, everything turns crazy if one insists on shoving the Adult Mentality point in there, but... isn't it simpler just to assume Meyer made shit up after the fact? I mean, I might be missing something - is there any indication in Breaking Dawn that Renesmee is an adult who plays the child, or is she just portrayed as an insanely precocious child (which is how I recall her)?

That's true. She seems to take more liberty with interpretation than with the actual details of the setting. If you think about it, "Meyer's vampires are invulnerable to that which would normally kill a vampire" is a statement of fact about her characters, and Mervin accepts it as gospel. On the other hand, "My vampires are awesome and good people" is just how Meyer interprets her characters, and so she doesn't feel compelled to honor that--likely for no other reason than that she doesn't like Twilight or Meyer.

What gets to me about the person who tried to object to Mervin's "children are selfish" rant is that the people who responded to her didn't even address that point specifically. They basically said "Maybe you're right about REAL children but Renesmee is not a real child so she doesn't count." They're dodging the issue, like they're scared of admitting openly that they're wrong. It reminds me, again, of the way the HMS_STFU people regarded those on Death to Capslock. If the DTCLers complained about how mustache-twirlingly evil something made Snape look they were shallow twits who just couldn't accept that their precious Snape could actually have flaws, but if the DTCLers tried to make the case that Snape, while flawed, was not QUITE as evil as some made him out to be, then suddenly they were so fannishly eager to praise Snape that they were praising him for every little thing, even if it just meant he hadn't been as much of a jerk as he could have been. They were so eager to blame those who had a different way of looking at things that they didn't even bother with internal consistency--they just dredged up more ways to discredit DTCL.

I think the people who do the Breaking Dawn sporkings at Das_Sporking are losing it.

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